Curse

master_of_puppets · Jun 02, 2006, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Well,for now on I don't care what ANet will try to do. I'm going to play exploited builds with the others and then we will see if it will be nerfed or not. When HA becomes place of 2-3 different builds they might even change something.
So hint for all of you: go with the easy way

Lol, HA is already a place of 2-3 different builds. Has been for quite a while, if not always.

But the thing about the dual skills is true, I lost a lot of respect for Anet when they made those, and i didnt have a lot of respect for them to begin with so u might as well say I hate them.

lightblade · Jun 02, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Cry of Frustration completely counters blood spike

So are choking gas/practiced stance

Sofia Sofia Sofia · Jun 02, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Why would you want to bring a ritualist that will feed enemy blood or FOC spikers even more energy from your own spirits? Is it not already enough work to prevent their spirits from being layed while simultaneous interrupting their spikes and working in your own adrenal spikes at times? Why bring a character that just makes that job harder?

I've never used a Rit spirit spammer against Blood Spike, but I assume it cuts the damage that they do with their spikes. So even if they get the energy to pull it off, they will not make the kill.

Divineshadows · Jun 02, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofia Sofia Sofia

I've never used a Rit spirit spammer against Blood Spike, but I assume it cuts the damage that they do with their spikes. So even if they get the energy to pull it off, they will not make the kill.

And if they take the extra energy you're feeding them with your team's ritualist spirits and decide to just spam monk spells and ignore any attempt to spike it becomes a match of which team quits out first.

Saborath Gilgalad · Jun 02, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

What they did to Blood and FoC Spike today, and what they did to IWAY way back when weren't complete nerf's. They just slowed down the build abit. People still run IWAY though now u dont always face it (it was fun when u knew what team u were going to face, before u faced it.), and people will still run blood spike in HA though maybe not as often.

When they nerfed the Smiter in HoH the first time it was a real nerf, since smites was almost non existant after wards. I never was in favor of having soul reaping not be affected by spirits, and I never had a problem facing BS becuase its beatable and not overpowered, the only thing thats not fun is when their holding.

Alot of the Fotms revolve around one skill or ability (IWAY, Soul Reaping, etc) and all Anet needs to do is change that one skill or ability it will damage the build considerably.
Balance Builds on the other hand IMO will never get nerfed fully, because since its balanced it revolves around many skills and abilities. And if Anet Nerfs one or two skills used by balanced the build its self is versitle enough to change and still work.

tomcruisejr · Jun 02, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

i agree something needs to be nerfed but im not sure that will change much, ive seen many good bloodspikes just use shadow and vamp
shadow is already 8 second recharge and with qz it recharges fast enough to pressure down an infusers energy
the root of the problem is the spirit spam, most notably qz and ritualist spirits
giving necros bottomless energy
the steps required to modify a given build to counter a good bloodspike with a given build far exceed what you ever needed to do to keep up against a good iway when it was its peak

revert to global enchantment natures/binding rituals. no to spirits!11!!1 :/

Loch · Jun 03, 2006, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

JR, let us in on your infinite wisdom. I want to hear the JR vision for HA. (:

It'll probably be something like this (but not limited to this):

1) No more personal Rank. This is a team game, not a game about which scrubs can farm the most with PuGs. If you want a Rank, go GvG.
2) No more map objectives that depend on the survival of the Ghostly Hero. This just forces people to bring shit like Spell Breaker.
3) NO MORE ALTAR MAPS! This is a variant on point 2, but make sure this mode is removed from HA. Altar maps promote lame stalemates for eight minutes and extremely defensive "holding bildz," which are competely counterproductive to actually fighting in a normal 8v8. Basically, any mode where Meteor Shower and Flameburst thrive is a mode you don't want in the game.

If an altar-type map is absolutely necessary, perhaps there could be a mode that's about capping a large number of smaller shrines without a Ghostly, like in Alliance Battles (where you cap with the aggro bubble). This kind of match would promote mobility, since a team that "holdz teh altar" loses out on many more caps.

Byron · Jun 03, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

The way to fix HA is to do away with it, IMO.

Ah, that's all from me.

Zui · Jun 03, 2006, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

The way to fix HA is to do away with it, IMO.

Good Idea. Keep the name though. There's nothing wrong with the name. Just wipe rank, fix the fame mechanic, then change every single map to not promote gimmicks and degenerate builds. Then HA will be great.

tomcruisejr · Jun 03, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loch

It'll probably be something like this (but not limited to this):

1) No more personal Rank. This is a team game, not a game about which scrubs can farm the most with PuGs. If you want a Rank, go GvG.
2) No more map objectives that depend on the survival of the Ghostly Hero. This just forces people to bring shit like Spell Breaker.
3) NO MORE ALTAR MAPS! This is a variant on point 2, but make sure this mode is removed from HA. Altar maps promote lame stalemates for eight minutes and extremely defensive "holding bildz," which are competely counterproductive to actually fighting in a normal 8v8. Basically, any mode where Meteor Shower and Flameburst thrive is a mode you don't want in the game.

If an altar-type map is absolutely necessary, perhaps there could be a mode that's about capping a large number of smaller shrines without a Ghostly, like in Alliance Battles (where you cap with the aggro bubble). This kind of match would promote mobility, since a team that "holdz teh altar" loses out on many more caps.

nice ones.

or how about removing fame from HA and replace it with gold prize per map win (5k for start and +10k for each consecutive wins) and put fame in GvG, so people who want fame will have no choice but to play more intense, more tactical, quality pvp?

EaT Macros · Jun 03, 2006, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Personally I like HA more then GvG, I dont wanna fight 30 minute battles on practically the same maps each time. I like the speed of HA, the difference between the maps and the different play styles. Removing fame is not an option imo, although I wouldnt really care since me and my guild never play with PuGs.

ATM GvG is more quality PvP, but I remember the day that HA (or the good old "tombs") was from a higher quality. I would love it to see that times back, have some good fights in HA and enjoy it again.

Rieselle · Jun 03, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Why not make HA a true "tournament"??

Every X hours, a new tournament starts, the game takes X number of teams (16, 32, etc) and puts them into an elimination tournament. The brackets are posted somewhere ingame for all to see, and games from the quarter-finals upwards are available in obs mode.

The matches are played on random GvG maps. Possibly a change to the VoD/time limit mechanic to lower the total time required to play through a complete tournament. Winners get something nice.

If there are lots of people, then multiple tournaments can be run at the same time.

Since GvG is meant to be the pinnacle of GW pvp, make the tournament a fast-paced variant of GvG, with the "guild" requirement removed, and no persistent rank/rating.

It'd be a great place to test out GvG builds and stuff as well.

cR4zY-n^ · Jun 03, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

I didn't even read all this. Everything is infusable if you have good monks with you. I infused with only 1 casaulty vs trained r9+ b-spike yesterday... You still have SB on your side, your prot monk (I hope good) and WoH to heal, so no chance they can spike you out that easily with second wave.

IWAY? I never had anything against it eventho I don't play it. You don't need even vent/ts for it which means it needs bit less skill idd, but it's very easy to beat with good group.

Tournament idea is nice, but it would mean nothing if it would take plce every day. HA should stay as it is and have Cup season twice at year (Fall and Spring) where guilds would sign up on main GW page and some organisators would make groups, rosters etc etc... that would be awesome. ^^

As for the guy that flamed fellow Croatian (I don't know any of those two but) on a basis of bad english grammar... go hide in a hole, such flames are so 1998. Bear in mind that lad still talks fine English and almost if not flawlessly another language you got no clue about. -.-

Loch · Jun 03, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

or how about removing fame from HA and replace it with gold prize per map win (5k for start and +10k for each consecutive wins) and put fame in GvG, so people who want fame will have no choice but to play more intense, more tactical, quality pvp?

I don't think personal Rank is ever a good idea in this game, even if it's related to GvG. It's the team that wins matches, not just a bunch of individual players.

Gold prizes may lead to more mindless HA farming, which is what we want to discourage. Perhaps gold prizes should be awarded to wins on later maps but not earlier maps.

JR · Jun 03, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by cR4zY-n^

Everything is infusable if you have good monks with you.

Try playing against a decent spike sometime, instead of garbage tombs spikes. A decent spike will be physically impossible to infuse, it is not down to your infuser to save it; but your team to disrupt it.

Schorny · Jun 03, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by cR4zY-n^

I didn't even read all this. Everything is infusable if you have good monks with you. I infused with only 1 casaulty vs trained r9+ b-spike yesterday...

blood spike is more of a pressure build than a spike. if you have enough energy to infuse and your warrior is not on frenzy or the dp is too high, there is no way anyone can die (besides overextending too much).

as JR said, your infuser is just for cleaning up what came through the disruption. A good spike cannot be broken 100%, there will come damage through your disruption and your job as infuser is to clean that up.

NightOwl · Jun 04, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

It really shouldn't come down to infusing all that much, imo. Sure, infusing a few spikes against a blood spike team (not focused on holding) is within the realm of acceptability, however if you're running balanced, there is no excuse for not having interrupts on your team.

Cry of Frustration, a great skill, will often stop most of the necros on the spike team from getting off a spike. Great, they just fired several vamp gazes (the initial ss/ls was Cried), no big deal. Divert something...a couple somethings even, and now you've got some time with one less spiker, work on taking a different guy out. There are so many other interrupts in the mesmer line, taking 2-3 should be standard practice for mesmers in HA. You KNOW that you'll be facing bloodspike within a few rounds. Get your mesmer camping one guy, stick to him. Put your shock wars (if you have 2) on different targets to build adren, be ready to shock down a spike if your mesmer isn't using Cry on that particular spike. Within a few broken spike attempts, your warriors should be ready to converge and adren spike a target...if you have a warder with eq, have him hit this right about that time to help the warriors spike (if most of the other team is on the ground, then they can't be healing the guy getting spiked out, nor can the spike target kite).

Really, the infuser is the last line of defense in blood spike vs. balanced. Bring interrupts, shut them down, don't let them pull off perfect spikes. If they have the vamp gaze queued up, then it'll be a givaway for where the spike will land when the initial ss/ls is interrupted. If they're spiking you perfectly every time, don't blame your infuser for missing it or not having the energy to infuse, talk to your warrior(s) and mesmer(s) and find out why they're letting the other team get these spikes off.

It's still a tough match, due to the bloodspike teams' defensive ability. Winnable though. Once they're on the defensive, they often crumple. No energy coming in from kills (except on their team, which removes some healing/prot), and more damage received, it's just a matter of time. In some ways, it's like facing Iway. You lose to it, people ask the warder what the problem was, where were the wards, etc. People *know* that the monks can't hold up forever against the onslaught of damage that iway puts out without damage mitigation. So why is it down to infusion against blood spike? Stop it before it starts. If people get a hang of how to handle it and prevent some/all of the damage through interrupt/shutdown, then it's not a case of blood spike vs. 1 infuse monk saving a passive target.

Yunas Ele · Jun 05, 2006, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Hmmm... I have to agree with mental here on the dupe skills. While some of them may be imbalanced, others are also just plain retarded. I don't think I can think of any build that would ever need 2 tigers furys, ever....

I haven't read the entire topic so I may be mistaken here, but from what I've read, mental isn't whining about IWAY or blood spike being over powered in this topic(although I see him doing it quite a lot in game), hes whining about the dupe skills. So in terms of dupe skills I agree but in terms of blood spike/IWAY being over powered, I disagree. But I'll argue with him about those being overpowered in game when he whines about them, not in this topic.

Spura · Jun 05, 2006, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Few notes:

4)If you really want to complain about a spike build, complain about the spike build that beat EvIL, iQ, iGi and but a bunch of guys too young to compete in the tournement into the top 10 this season. I love DEER, God Milk and company, but ranger spike has proven to be largely unstoppable using only 3 spikers. "One, two, three, spike!" will always be with guild wars, but if you have complaints go after the spike build that could rightfully claim: "We are the meta game."

I don't think 3 man ranger spike is that much of a threat. They start off with dual shot which isn't really that fast of an attack. So it wouldn't be hard to Blinding Flash one of the rangers while dual shot is activating.
Another great counter by factions is using Wail of Doom on a ranger who is activating dual shot. 33% of their damage goes right out the window and with something like union up you should be practically immune to their spike. In fact I think you could keep Wail of Doom up 24/7 on one ranger. With only 2 rangers, damage should be low enough to infuse.

JR · Jun 05, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

So it wouldn't be hard to Blinding Flash one of the rangers while dual shot is activating.

Most R.Spike will have a Martyr on spike anyway, so that would do nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Another great counter by factions is using Wail of Doom on a ranger who is activating dual shot. 33% of their damage goes right out the window and with something like union up you should be practically immune to their spike. In fact I think you could keep Wail of Doom up 24/7 on one ranger. With only 2 rangers, damage should be low enough to infuse.

Are you going to sacrafice an elite skill slot to take a sub-par skill, just to beat R.Spike?